Josh Landan: Chief Collaborator at Ashland Hard Seltzer

Hard Seltzer News interviewed Josh Landan, CEO at Ashland Hard Seltzer, last August, at a time when his brand was still adding California cities to distribution. He spoke to the power of collaboration with friends and contacts in order to successfully grow a brand.

This is the interview transcript of the podcast:

HSN: I was thinking we could start off maybe you could talk a little bit about your co-owners because you’ve got a lot. There’s a lot of celebs, comedians, professional athletes.

JL: Yeah.

HSN: So, I wanted to learn a little bit more about that and why you decide to go that direction with your hard seltzer brand?

JL: Yeah. I mean, I think it’s as simple as most of those people or my friends, they were my friends to begin with, and then a couple of them, you know, friends through friends. When I did Saint Archer a few years back — when I founded that brewery — I own the brand with a lot of surfers and skaters that were my friends that I’d grown up with and this time around it was fun to get a bit more well-rounded group involved, to do the brand with me this time. So, it was really fun to have traditional athletes and skateboarders and surfers again, and, like you said, actors and country singers, everybody in between. I think [sic] when you can do a brand with all those different types of folks, and they can talk about the brand…and they really own it with me. They know everything that’s going on. And so, it’s not like in a lot of cases when they’re helping fund the brand. Like, they’re really owners. It’s not where they’re just given equity to promote a business. That’s not what’s happening. So, I mean, we’re all kind of in it together, and it’s fun too when you can do something authentic like that. That’s always the best case scenario.

HSN: Yeah, that was going to be my follow-up question. How much say [do] they have as co-owners — just because there’s so many — how do you guys communicate?

JL: Yeah, I mean, from a decision [standpoint] I do run the business, and I think they trust me to make all those decisions. But,I talk to all of them all the time, at least once every couple of weeks and some of them more than that. So, I talk to all of them all the time, they know everything that’s going on, and I send them text updates all the time when exciting things happen…All of them know what’s going on pretty much regularly.

HSN: Seeing as you’re growing in Southern California, where do you ultimately see the growth of the company?

JL: I think everywhere it goes, it’ll do well to be honest with you. I’ve never seen a brand do what Ashland has done in terms of sales. I’ve never seen anything like it. It’s been…with the amount of product that we’re selling and just that territory, we should be doing that in multiple states, and we’re doing it in two counties. So, it’s really like nothing I’ve seen before and based on our Instagram, you know, everybody all over the country really wants it. I think traditionally, beer brands and alcohol brands that are kind of born and bred in California tend to do really well elsewhere, right? And, that’s probably not so much the other way, right? Brands that are kind of created outside of California don’t generally do well in California. So yeah, I mean, I think it’ll do well everywhere, but obviously, Southern California and then statewide, I think Ashland will do really well and [in] all the communities in our local state.

HSN: That’s interesting that you say that you haven’t seen anything like [this]. I was going to ask — since you’re a beer guy and you have done Saint Archer — what was kind of the transition from beer to seltzer? What are some of the differences you’ve seen in terms of your first couple months of sales?

JL: Yeah. I mean, for me, the transition was easy because that’s what I’m drinking. Me and all my friends and my wife and her friends…Everybody’s drinking hard seltzer, I think, in this day and age, and everybody wants to be healthy and happy and feel good and still have fun and barbecue and have a couple of drinks…It just kind of got harder and harder to drink multiple beers. It just wasn’t in the cards, you know what I mean? Nothing really more than that…I just got over it. I wanted to wake up and surf in the morning. I have three little kids, and they’re all playing sports, and it’s busy all the time every day, all day…You just don’t want to feel gross the next day…I think the biggest difference between hard seltzer and beer is really just — in craft beer, anyways — it’s just the consumption. The consumption of hard seltzer is like light beer, really. People consume it like they’re drinking Bud Light or Coors Light or Natural Light, whatever it is. People are buying 30-packs of Bud Light and have forever. Well, we sell thousands and thousands of 24-packs from Costco. You know, with craft beer you’re not going to sell thousands of a new IPA 24-pack. Stone might [because] they’ve been around for twenty-five years, [sic] but I think for the most part people are just not…the masses are not drinking beer as much, and I think this is the replacement to light beer…Growing up in Ventura — which is a small [sic] sleepy coastal beach town just south of Santa Barbara — it’s a very blue collar town, and all of my best friends, they drink Coors and Bud Light. That’s what they drink. Even those people are drinking hard seltzer now, you know, everybody. I don’t care who you are. They want to feel good. They don’t want to feel awful, right? So, that’s why all ages, gender, income bracket, race, everything — it doesn’t matter. Everyone is drinking hard seltzer, like, everybody. I mean, there’s no barrier to entry. Everybody understands what it is.

HSN: What are some of the hard seltzers you thought were doing a really good job and kind of got you maybe interested in having your own hard seltzer?

JL: You know, it’s funny because I don’t know if you’ve had Ashland yet or not, but it tastes completely different from all the other brands on the market. It’s an alcoholic La Croix which is exactly what I wanted, and [sic] all the other ones are completely different tasting, you know, they are malt based. That’s where the alcohol comes from. Ours is sugar-based. Ashland and White Claw taste nothing alike. Nothing. So, it’s really a completely different liquid. You know, there’s no aftertaste. It’s like a hint of taste. It’s really what they call it is an “organic essence.” So, I wouldn’t say that anything that was an existing hard seltzer inspired me to do anything. I kind of wanted to do something a little bit different because I drink a lot of seltzer water — whether it’s, you know, whatever brands — Pellegrino Perrier, La Croix, Pepsi’s brand. Topo Chico, I love. I wanted just an alcoholic version of those. Something super light and with a hint of flavor, not like an aspartame-y kind of aftertaste flavor. I just wasn’t interested in that really.

HSN: Do you think we’ll continue to see a trend in craft beer producers going into seltzer?

JL: I think they will for sure…I don’t think people are going to care either. You know, like, when your favorite craft brewery makes a hard seltzer, it feels desperate. It’s not what you do, you know what I mean? Like, Harland is not going to make a hard seltzer. That’s why I think Ashland has done so well, because that’s what we are. We’re an independent hard seltzer business. We’re not a brewery who’s also making a seltzer…I think fans of that brewery might drink it a little bit, but a big state-wide or national brand will never come from a brewery which is why the success has, you know…Truly while it’s Boston Beer is not Sam Adams Seltzer. It’s its own brand, right? And White Claw has nothing to do with Mike’s Hard Lemonade, and they’re stand-alone brands…I think if a brewery just says, like, Saint Archer Hard Seltzer, nobody cares. Just.nobody cares. At least I don’t, anyways. Like, if I want a hard seltzer, then I’ll buy an Ashland or something else. If I want a beer, then I’ll buy a Saint Archer.

HSN: Kind of speaking to that…so, I was going to ask — is there may be an Ashland tap room in the works? Are you going to serve Ashland on tap, or are you really just not quite sure, or at your breweries even? Or are you just focusing on, like, the 24-packs?

JL: Yeah, I mean 12 and 24-packs. We have six-packs and 16-ounce cans also, and we’re 250 bars in Orange County and San Diego with draft. So yeah, we’ve been able to really do well with that, you know, a Taproom. I’ve definitely thought about it. I’m not sure if I’ll ever get to it because [sic] we can’t keep up with what we’re doing right now. But yeah, I mean, a tasting room would be fantastic…In the meantime, I think the next best thing is making it available on draft and, you know, all of our favorite bars and restaurants all over Southern California.

HSN: Maybe tell us about the unusual Molban collection you have. We’re not sure we’ve seen anything quite like it when a product gets co-branded like that. How did this collaboration come to be?

Yeah. I mean, when I was doing Saint Archer, I did a co-branded beer with Girl Skateboards. Some I mean, I’ve done it before, and it’s funny because when I, in a lot of ways, when I think of drinking hard seltzer, I think of [sic] being on the golf course…A lot of the photos I see are people consuming Ashland on the golf course, and Sean Malto and Eric Koston and Atiba Jefferson are good friends with Stephen Molban, and I really liked their brand, and I thought it fit well with us, and I like when people do collaborations from outside of their category. Like, me doing a collaboration with another hard seltzer — it’s kind of like, well, we were speaking to the same people, you know, why not do a collaboration with another brand that has a completely different audience than yours? So, [it] just kind of worked out. It wasn’t like this, you know, huge process…I called Steve on the phone and said, “Hey, I want to do this fruit punch flavor. I want to do it with you guys and let’s do it.” And he said, “Sounds good.” Limited flavors is not something people have done in hard seltzer. That’s really a craft beer initiative, usually. So, for us to be doing it, people have been really excited. Our orange pineapple that launched today, you know, is already sold out pretty much everywhere it’s gone. So, I mean, it’s just a different approach to the typical hard seltzer offering.

HSN: I know you do kind of an atypical approach too with your film background. Maybe you could talk a little bit about how you bring your background in film to your beer brands and now your seltzer brand.

JL: Yeah, I mean, I was a documentary filmmaker [sic] before I had the idea for Saint Archer, and I enjoy making films. I enjoy telling stories, and a step further, I enjoy telling my friends’ stories. Most of the time, people [sic] don’t know who these people are other than [sic] what they do for a living, so it’s been fun for me — kind of an excuse to get out of looking at the P&L (profit and loss) and all of the boring financial stuff, day-to-day business, and go out, make a film and tell stories — which is what I really love to do — and it’s been fun, and I think people seem to like them, so that’s always a plus. I think it’s fun to get to know [sic] someone that you maybe don’t know that much about if you’re a fan of them. It’s always fun to learn something new.

HSN: I wanted to know if there was anything else you’d like to add — anything you want readers to know, or listeners to know about the brand, about any upcoming things happening?

JL: Really, just that there’s the new flavor we have out — the orange pineapple. We’re excited about that. And, like I said earlier, I’m really excited that we’ll be available in LA in the next couple weeks here, and my hometown of Ventura which is always the most exciting, so it’s fun to be moving up the coast now.